Take Two Sues 3D Realms

[Heil Duke]

Originally Posted by Superczar

LOL, it's ok, they know how we feel...

I dont think so.....

[v.o]

Originally Posted by Heil Duke

I am here since the begging of this website

hidding in a Cave ? haha that was phunny :

[Blue Lightning]

Actually that was pretty good.

[Heil Duke]

Originally Posted by v.o

hidding in a Cave ? haha that was phunny :

playing Dota.....
and Tenchu
and jacking off on duke nukem Pics(when its done)!

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Originally Posted by v.o

hidding in a Cave ? haha that was phunny :

btw,Iam from saudi arabia,
and that shit head BIN LADEN is from Yamen.

[BloodWolf806]

Originally Posted by v.o

all his : Strauss.Zelnick@take2games.com fault

Okay, I'm rooting for 3DR in the lawsuit, but just to play devils advocate let's set up a scenario:

You own a large automobile company. You pay 12 million to acquire another company that has exclusive rights to this AMAZING new car yet another, independent car developer is creating...This company gets VERY close to completing the project after assuring you multiple times that they are almost done. Then right before they finish it, they close down. They abandon the project, and you are left with nothing.You have now (indirectly) spent 12 million dollars on NOTHING.

Wouldn't you take legal action?


I just hope after the lawsuit 3DR can keep the Duke IP, so Scott can develop new Duke games at Radar and continue to license it to Apogee.

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by BloodWolf806

Okay, I'm rooting for 3DR in the lawsuit, but just to play devils advocate let's set up a scenario:

You own a large automobile company. You pay 12 million to acquire another company that has exclusive rights to this AMAZING new car yet another, independent car developer is creating...This company gets VERY close to completing the project after assuring you multiple times that they are almost done. Then right before they finish it, they close down. They abandon the project, and you are left with nothing.You have now (indirectly) spent 12 million dollars on NOTHING.

Wouldn't you take legal action?


I just hope after the lawsuit 3DR can keep the Duke IP, so Scott can develop new Duke games at Radar and continue to license it to Apogee.

Based on what I've read about the history so far (and if George is telling the truth), I have a feeling that 3DR was more or less getting some kind of steady funding from G.O.D., or whichever publisher it was before T2 took over. T2 buys them out, expects DN3D to be completed (since they now own whatever 3DR promised the former publisher), but DOESN'T fund 3DR to finish it. This also may or may not have something to do with at least one of the times the game's development "reboot" happened.

[v.o]

You dont get it ! they didn just Close spontaneously, Lame Two Made them Close !

3DR is about to finish it, then George Bussard gambles and gets in deep with sharks, one day take2 carve his face.
And they got no money for surgeries, they can't take it, they just wanna see us smile again and we just want them to know that we don't care about the scars.
So.... i stick a razor in my mouth... and do this, to myself. And you know what... he can't stand the sight of me! he leaves Now i see the funny side... now were always whaiting.

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by v.o

You dont get it ! they didn just Close spontaneously, Lame Two Made them Close !

3DR is about to finish it, then George Bussard gambles and gets in deep with sharks, one day take2 carve his face.
And they got no money for surgeries, they can't take it, they just wanna see us smile again and we just want them to know that we don't care about the scars.
So.... i stick a razor in my mouth... and do this, to myself. And you know what... he can't stand the sight of me! he leaves Now i see the funny side... now were always whaiting.

I laughed my ass.
I didn't understand anything but reading through it made it funny!

[Olpus]

I am on the side of Take 2. George Broussard passed the limit not releasing a single game in 12 years.

[v.o]

George is to Cool too read, he pays ppl to do it (from Take2´s money tho )

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by v.o

George is to Cool to read, he pays ppl to do it (from Take2´s money tho )

I doubt he does that tbh. He can post himself, he is not that much of a hotshot like movie stars that pay their own representatives for internet activity.

[crashoverride]

Originally Posted by Ironside

Take 2 is going for the kill. I hope they finish DNF and release it so we can play it. Fingers crossed. I know if Duke stays with GB we will never see it and it will be the end of Duke. But if T2 gets it there will be a big chance that we will get to play it.

Sorry, if I sound like an arsh, but what the H E L L are you thinking! Actually, I should say that to pretty much everyone putting 3d realms down. I'm like all of you pissed that the game has taken so long, but you guys weren't satisfied with the demo reel at all? This game looks freakin awesome! Now whether it sees the light of day is a whole other story and true fully George should make sure that they have to peel it from his cool dead fingers. I for one appreciate what 3d realms is doing here. I would have loved to get my hands on the game back in 2001 when it looked pretty damn good for those days. What do you think Take 2 is going to do with the game once they get their hands on it? Release it as is? Make someone else "finish it"? Light it on fire and piss on the ashes?

I'm going with option 3 because it seems like that is exactly what they are going to do get their money out of it and burn the hole franchise. Some would say 3d realms has already done that, but in my opinion, 3d realms screwed up, but haven't they apologized endlessly for this? Maybe not as much as some would want. Would you like them to kiss your ass as well? Come on have some freakin compassion every person who was working for 3d realms is now jobless and blame can be laid at both parties shoes. 3d realms for taking so long and take 2 for being a bunch of pussies! Hell if I had the 30 million I would buy the rights give take 2 the finger and give it to 3d realms because they are the ones who created duke and if it dies in there hands so be it.I would rather that happen than it die in the hands of take 2.

Do you really think they will give you the DNF we have been seeing all over the internet for the past week or so...I don't think so they will butcher the product and release it so fast it will suck balls or atleast it wouldn't be what 3d realms envisioned and all of those employees hard work would have went down the tube. I say George fight those blood sucking *******s and give them a kick in the nuts for me! Sorry, it so long I had to put my 12 million cents out there.

Like I said I'm in the same boat as all of you and would love to play the game, but there is something wrong with 3d realms not releasing the game. If take 2 took over I don't think I would buy it. It wouldn't be the same. All and all you can take this as you want and I probably changed no ones opinion, but hell as long as we are all kicking each other in the balls over a game why not. We can go back and forth all day long, but the fact is we don't know anything about any agreements between the two parties and probably will never know.

One more thing... I wish all you guys, who got laid off because of this mess, the best of luck and hope everything works out. To make some of the stuff, I have seen, you guys have freakin talent don't stop! Kick ass and chew bubblegum.

I'm done and lets here the criticisms and angry responses I know they will come soon enough.

[wayskobfssae]

So... hypothetically-speaking, if 3DR somehow wins this case, and it turns out Take 2 is somehow responsible for the DN4E failure, wouldn't that make Take 2 responsible for all those 3DR employees losing their jobs?

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

So... hypothetically-speaking, if 3DR somehow wins this case, and it turns out Take 2 is somehow responsible for the DN4E failure, wouldn't that make Take 2 responsible for all those 3DR employees losing their jobs?

I think it will but what makes you think 3drealms will win more than their freedom? Do you seriously expect 3drealms to win more than their freedom from this trial? If by a miracle they somehow manage to win the trial, they will most likely get the ability to continue developing this game on their own without a publisher. No way duke is going to see the light if they don't get money after this stuff happens. They will just win and remain with what they have developed and with no money to continue developing it till 100%

[dan2091]

Originally Posted by crashoverride

Do you really think they will give you the DNF we have been seeing all over the internet for the past week or so...I don't think so they will butcher the product and release it so fast it will suck balls or atleast it wouldn't be what 3d realms envisioned and all of those employees hard work would have went down the tube.

I second that. But who knows, probably they can really try to finish it and make it good, but never as 3DR intended.

Now, someone pointed out that Take Two really never gave money to 3D Realms for the publishing rights... GT bought the right in the 90's, then GT was subsequently bought by Infogrames and later by Atari and T2? (correct me if I'm mistaken). The point here is that If Take 2 never really gave money to 3D Realms [for the publishing rights or fundings] then they don't have nothing to ask for.

[wayskobfssae]

Originally Posted by Mr.Deviance

I think it will but what makes you think 3drealms will win more than their freedom? Do you seriously expect 3drealms to win more than their freedom from this trial? If by a miracle they somehow manage to win the trial, they will most likely get the ability to continue developing this game on their own without a publisher. No way duke is going to see the light if they don't get money after this stuff happens. They will just win and remain with what they have developed and with no money to continue developing it till 100%

It's a double-edged sword for sure. As much for T2 as it is for 3DR. If T2 loses, it could quickly spin around to bite them in the arse. 3DR may be just as likely to be owed something. I think the previous publisher was funding the project, and when T2 took over, they didn't follow-up on that. That would mean this is all their fault. And if that's the case, T2 forced 3DR into bankrupcy, and put a full dev team out of work. And then you can also add into that the fact that legal proceedings like this take forever (no pun intended) and by the time it's over, we might all be using 3D holographic projection monitors and motherboards with on-board true-physics & real-time raytracing coprocessors, and the game will ONCE AGAIN be too outdated to be worth completing, which wastes all the money that was put into the latest "version" of the project. Counter-suit? Maybe?

Originally Posted by dan2091

Oh, oh!! And what about my attempt? Was it any good?? http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=33

Heheh yeah I liked that one too.

[dan2091]

^^ I hope you're right, man. All these things have made me stick in front of the computer all day. I'll have to leave it now and wait sometime to see what happens as you said. But, as someone else said it before, speculating is funny...

Originally Posted by wayskobfssae

Heheh yeah I liked that one too.

Thank you .

[Bloo Raccoon]

I think Take two knows they have no case. I think the game was pretty much done and George was trying to work with a loop hole to get out of Take Two having the publishing rights. So Take Two is taking them to court pretty much to waste their time and delay the finishing off of the game as long as possible and trying to get something settled out of court so they can try and get back some of the 12 mil they paid. Thats just the feeling i get.

[Mr.Deviance]

Originally Posted by Bloo Raccoon

I think Take two knows they have no case. I think the game was pretty much done and George was trying to work with a loop hole to get out of Take Two having the publishing rights. So Take Two is taking them to court pretty much to waste their time and delay the finishing off of the game as long as possible and trying to get something settled out of court so they can try and get back some of the 12 mil they paid. Thats just the feeling i get.

That's a new idea I am seeing I think.
Good thinking. That would explain why the devs were releasing stuff out as they have finished the game and they thought it was ok to do so.

[Heil Duke]

Originally Posted by Bloo Raccoon

I think Take two knows they have no case. I think the game was pretty much done and George was trying to work with a loop hole to get out of Take Two having the publishing rights. So Take Two is taking them to court pretty much to waste their time and delay the finishing off of the game as long as possible and trying to get something settled out of court so they can try and get back some of the 12 mil they paid. Thats just the feeling i get.

thats new!but good point

[LeadBullet]

Oh my god that is the dumbest horseshit I've ever read. Worst part is the following two posts agreeing with it.

How does anyone believe somebody is going to shut down an entire company and fire everybody because they were trying to weasel out of a publishing deal, and also believe the game was really 100% done and these fired employees also believed it was?

[Delicieuxz]

Originally Posted by Bloo Raccoon

I think Take two knows they have no case. I think the game was pretty much done and George was trying to work with a loop hole to get out of Take Two having the publishing rights. So Take Two is taking them to court pretty much to waste their time and delay the finishing off of the game as long as possible and trying to get something settled out of court so they can try and get back some of the 12 mil they paid. Thats just the feeling i get.

How was George or 3dR trying to get around T2's publishing rights? I don't see that anywhere.

[Bloo Raccoon]

Originally Posted by LeadBullet

Oh my god that is the dumbest horseshit I've ever read. Worst part is the following two posts agreeing with it.

How does anyone believe somebody is going to shut down an entire company and fire everybody because they were trying to weasel out of a publishing deal, and also believe the game was really 100% done and these fired employees also believed it was?

Never said thats why he closed down 3dr and fired employees.

Maybe George was planning on calling it quits and retiring after the release of DNF

[PsychoGoatee]

This is madness!

I hope 3D Realms wins, and George and co. keep the rights to Duke. They won't finish the game, but I'd like to see them retain creative control of the franchise, and source it out to another developer.

I don't want a soulless organization like Take2 to own Duke.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

an example of this is a commodities contract which is strictly regulated by the mercantile market. they are like the stock market. contracts are issued on a quarterly basis.

an appple grower may sell a futures contract for a fixed price. an apple grower may buy a contract to receive the apples. Additionally ANYONE can both sell and buy these contracts if they think the price is likely to go up or down in this quarterly period. The contract is legally binding. If you are holding a contract on the due date you have to make good on it by either receiving the apples (which you have already paid for) or handing over the apples (for which you have been paid).

Now if you have promised apples to sell, and sold them for $1, but you don't actually have any apples to sell when the contract is due, then you have to buy out your contract at the current price apples are selling. So yes, you would lose $99 ($100 - the dollar originally received).

Ofcourse not. Only if he wants to buy the RIGHTS back it would cost him $99,-. Remember they did not trade APPLES, but the RIGHTS to eat the apple.

So the 100 dollar guy is ******. See the stockmarket.

[Jiminator]

thats a meaningless statement. all contracts will have a list of terms detailed out as to how the contract will execute. You can't sell someone the right to something and then not produce it. it is a given that some things will take longer than expected, but longer is "months" or a couple of years. it is not *12* years.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

thats a meaningless statement. all contracts will have a list of terms detailed out as to how the contract will execute. You can't sell someone the right to something and then not produce it. it is a given that some things will take longer than expected, but longer is "months" or a couple of years. it is not *12* years.

Thanks for THIS meaningless statement since you have NO clue what so ever what is in the contract.

If we look at what IS known, then 3dr had a very simple publishing contract with GTi giving them the right to publish the game... when it is done. Without any funding from the publisher. Thats what TT bought... for $12 million.

If TT buys a meaningless contract then thats THEIR problem.

Broussard went on to outline the current status of Duke Nukem Forever. "Our deal is simple," he said. "We're making the game. It'll be done when it's done. We've funded 99.999% of the game (aside from a very, very small advance from GT Interactive, years ago, before Take 2 bought the game from them). It's our risk, our necks and our gamble. Under the deal we should be earning royalties from about unit 30,000 or so (that's a real small number)."
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152687.html

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------

Interessting comments...

By: ScottMi11er x
REPLY
>>> I would have sold the IP in a heart beat and created a new IP with that 30 million dollars. <<<

Hell, I would have also!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=...nchor_19932664

By: ScottMi11er x
>>> T2 declined but offered $30M for ownership of the IP and 3DR would have finished DNF.

We would have taken this offer without hesitation. Not. Even. Close.
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=...nchor_19932691

[Teriander]

From what I know, Take Two has funded at least 12 million into 3DR to create Duke Nukem Forever. Do some quick math.

If 20 3D Artist were paid $50,000 a year. That's 1 million for 1 year.
If 20 Game Programmers were paid $50,000 a year. That's 1 milliion for 1 year.

Thats already 40 people with good salaries paid for the first year, and you still have 10 million left of invested funding.

Now Im sure they had more than enough money from all the Duke franchise and other game sources. But for them to take 10 years and produce nothing but failure?

I'd be pissed too. So many companies are proving to be corrupted when it comes to investments, we dont need game companies to follow the same problems. I support Take Two all the way.

[Jiminator]

those statements do not sync up with the filed court documents.

look at the referenced q-10 document:

http://ir.take2games.com/secfiling.c...125282-06-3343

In March 2005, we renegotiated a $6,000 contingent obligation due upon the delivery of the final PC version of Duke Nukem Forever through the payment of $4,250 and issuance of a promissory note in the principal amount of $500. The payment of the promissory note is contingent upon the commercial release of such product prior to December 31, 2006.

right there they are saying they renegotiated a 6 million dollar deal for DNF through a payment of 4.25 million (add 3 zeros to the numbers).

march 2005 q-10

Contingent Consideration: In connection with the acquisition of Mobius in March 2004, the Company agreed to make additional contingent payments of approximately $2,000 based on the delivery of products. In fiscal 2003, the Company agreed to make additional payments of up to $2,500 to the former owners of Cat Daddy based on a percentage of Cat Daddy’s future profits for the first three years after acquisition. In connection with the Company’s acquisition of the publishing rights to the franchise of Duke Nukem PC and video games in December 2000, the Company is contingently obligated to pay $6,000 in cash upon delivery of the final PC version of Duke Nukem Forever . The payables will be recorded when the conditions requiring their payment are met.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

those statements do not sync up with the filed court documents.

look at the referenced q-10 document:

http://ir.take2games.com/secfiling.c...125282-06-3343



right there they are saying they renegotiated a 6 million dollar deal for DNF through a payment of 4.25 million (add 3 zeros to the numbers).

march 2005 q-10

With whom they did negotiate that? Previously this $6 and $4.25 deal was said to be negotiated with infogrames.

Another interesting post on shacknews:

By: dsmart[3000ad] x
REPLY
Basically TT bought the rights to publish DNF from Infogrames (who got it when they bought GTi). Nothing to do with 3DR because obviously they would have probably gotten their dev money from GT/Infogrammes (who TT bought the rights from) because am sure 3DR didn't give them the rights to publish DNF for free.

Its like just recently. Atari - flat broke - sold the Ghostbusters European publishing rights to Sony. Atari had bought that from Activision (?) I believe, along with the rights to Riddick - Dark Athena. Those deals have nothing to do with the developers and they wouldn't see a penny of it.

Here is how it probably went down in TT vs 3DR.

1. 3DR signs with GT (then bought by Infogrames) for DNF. My guess is money exchanged hands because there is no way in hell 3DR would give such a lucrative publishing right to GT for nuthin'. Then maybe they did. We won't know until the docs are released under discovery once the suit gets underway.

2. Infogrammes (which later buys Atari btw) gets tired of waiting for the game and decides to bail. So they sell the publishing rights to TT. At $12m - back in 2000 - thats a very hefty premium.

3. Since TT and 3DR have NO contract whatsoever, TT have NO control over what 3DR does with the game. It was fully self-funded by 3DR. So TT had no choice but to sit and wait. They eventually get tired of waiting and write down the $12m in their financials.

4. 3DR spends the better part of twelve years, screwing around with everyone's head, while blowing their own money on the game. Money which they obviously got from other ventures and not excluding whatever they got from GT/Infogrammes when it all started out.

5. 3DR runs out of money. They go to TT - who has the rights to publish the game - and ask for $5m to finish the game. TT says no and in an attempt to cap on their $12m, decided to buy the Duke IP for $30m. Of course its worth more than that, but publishers are righteous bastards and $30m for the Duke IP to a dev looking for $5m is nothing short of a firesale. And an insult. 3DR said no (I wouldn't do it either) and walked.

6. In order to show TT just how serious the situation was, rather than shop the title around - which am sure they did and wouldn't have been successful since TT would never sell the rights since they didn't have to - they knew it was the end of the line.

7. They close shop. Tell everyone to go home. Tell gamers to piss off.
Walked off with a Lifetime Achievement award from Wired mag and called it a day.

8. Take Two sues (as I said they would the very day this news broke). For whatever reason, that is their right.

As I said before, until docs start popping during discovery, my guess is that TT doesn't have a leg to stand on unless the rights they bought from GT clearly holds 3DR - the developer - to some performance standard. My guess is that it doesn't because once those rights were sold, the deal between 3DR and Infogrames probably terminated. If they hadn't terminated, TT would have had 100% say in the on-going development of the game, rather than sitting around and waiting.

So this also meant that whatever money Infogrames paid to 3DR up to that point, they could keep as that is industry norm when you project gets canned or sold off.

In the absense of the above, what I suspect TT is banking on is the promises of delivery and the twelve years of massive hype that 3DR had going. TT could argue that they bought the rights - and waited this long - based on promises (phone, email, marketing, PR, previews, pre-orders, the dog down the street barking Duke's name, some old wino around the corner talking about it etc) made by 3DR and they did so in good faith.

All the judge has to find is that TT bought something in good faith with a reasonable expectation of performance. If he rules on that, TT win. If he doesn't, its over and we'll never see DNF because TT will never release the rights. Lets hope there's no expiration clause. But after this long, my guess is that it is a non-expiring right they bought from Infogrames.

I want to be a fly on the wall in that court room when this goes to trial.
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=...nchor_19930627

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Teriander

From what I know, Take Two has funded at least 12 million into 3DR to create Duke Nukem Forever.

Source?

This is a source which says something else

2003
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=7653477

"By: Cygnus X-1 x
Isnt 3dr financing Duke THEMSELVES? WTF does their publisher have to do but wait for for it to be done?
May 29, 2003 3:08pm CST

By: GeorgeB3DR
Exactly. Take Two needs to STFU imo."

2003
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=6846402

"By: Scott3DR x
The write-off has to do with the fee that Take2 paid to Infogrames to buy the rights to DNF. 3DR got no part of this money -- a total of $12 million.

The reason Take2 did this is that it's a smart revenue management move: Take a markdown now while Vice City is super successful and overall revenues are sky high, then when DNF comes out it's 100% pure profit (because they took the write-down well before the game came out).

2006
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152687.html

"Broussard went on to outline the current status of Duke Nukem Forever. "Our deal is simple," he said. "We're making the game. It'll be done when it's done. We've funded 99.999% of the game (aside from a very, very small advance from GT Interactive, years ago, before Take 2 bought the game from them). It's our risk, our necks and our gamble. Under the deal we should be earning royalties from about unit 30,000 or so (that's a real small number)."

2007
http://www.yougamers.com/articles/18...be_king-page4/

"Given the publishing experience of 3DRealms and their willingness to tackle difference platforms, it made sense to enquire as to what lies ahead for DNF too. For example, are Take 2 Interactive Software still publishing Duke Nukem Forever? Given the amount of experience 3D Realms has in the production area, it might make more sense for 3DRealms to do this themselves:

Scott: Possibly, but Take2 has inherited the agreement we originally signed with GT Interactive back in the 90’s. This agreement does allow us to direct sale the game, such as through an online digital service, and we plan to take full advantage of this."

[Teriander]

Well if they didn't take any funding, then they should have. I mean for George to say "Id rather let DNF fail than accept an investment." Is pretty damn arrogant.

All you fans are drying your eyes right now, not because Take Two has failed you, but because 3DR has. If I had a great idea for a game and it was called "Duke Nukem Forever" I dont care who will invest in me, I'll promise a product, and I will deliver.

[Babe]

Why create a new topic for it, when it can already be discussed in the other thread ?

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Teriander

Well if they didn't take any funding, then they should have. I mean for George to say "Id rather let DNF fail than accept an investment." Is pretty damn arrogant.

All you fans are drying your eyes right now, not because Take Two has failed you, but because 3DR has. If I had a great idea for a game and it was called "Duke Nukem Forever" I dont care who will invest in me, I'll promise a product, and I will deliver.

Let me see if I understand correctly.
First you tell everybody that Take Two is righteous pissed because 3DR took their money. Now you say that, if they didn't take their money, they SHOULD....

[Teriander]

Originally Posted by Swetsenegger

Let me see if I understand correctly.
First you tell everybody that Take Two is righteous pissed because 3DR took their money. Now you say that, if they didn't take their money, they SHOULD....

I think you're missing the part where they take the money and produce a product, not take their money and do nothing...

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Teriander

I think you're missing the part where they take the money and produce a product, not take their money and do nothing...

Still you are on both two ends of the spectrum and think you are spreading logic.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by PsychoGoatee

This is madness!

I hope 3D Realms wins, and George and co. keep the rights to Duke. They won't finish the game, but I'd like to see them retain creative control of the franchise, and source it out to another developer.

I don't want a soulless organization like Take2 to own Duke.

Exactly, they don't care if a game is fun, well made, well programmed, inovative or not, all they care about is pushing game development to the edge and shitting out software nobody needs.
What if Scott and George can't save the code. What if they can't pull 12mil out of their panties to pay off the shark?
I don't know how successful T2 think they are with this, but if they assume they can win with either cash or code and the following amount of cash.
George gets one HELL of an asskick and we'll probably get an altered DNF.

I DON'T WANT THAT!

P.S. Smallvilles season finale sucked... Life can't get any worse

[Jiminator]

eh, all the speculations and statements are worthless. I'd tend to trust court documents and sec filings to be closer to the truth. if you were swinging a deal for DNF then why would you make it with a 3rd party would could not actually deliver the game? And deals were done after the take two acquisitions. If they had no agreement with apogee, then they could not file a suit against them and expect to win.

[Swetsenegger]

Originally Posted by Jiminator

eh, all the speculations and statements are worthless. I'd tend to trust court documents and sec filings to be closer to the truth.

You mean the documents filled with statements from one of the two parties. Why should that be closer to the truth then public statements??

if you were swinging a deal for DNF then why would you make it with a 3rd party would could not actually deliver the game?

what doe you mean? Its not possible something changes during development why things are not developing the way you expected?

And deals were done after the take two acquisitions. If they had no agreement with apogee, then they could not file a suit against them and expect to win.

Well, thats what a lot of people are thinking. If they HAD some kind of performance clause.... why wait all these years??

Bottomline. Your guess is as good as mine. We both know dipshit

[Teriander]

Jesus Christ,

If 3DR received investment funding, they should return it for not producing a product.
If 3DR did NOT receive investment funding, they should have asked for it to help them produce a product.

The bottom line is, produce a product.

Is it really that complicated???